You need a coach. How do I know? Because no one sees themself truly objectively. Tiger Woods was the best golfer in the world by a long shot and he never competed without a swing coach. You want to play a sport? Get a coach. You want to run a business? Get a coach. Want to invest in real estate? Get a coach. And I’ve got a great one coming today. You’ll meet Chris Prefontaine in just a few moments.
As you’re about to hear, Chris has been in the real estate business a long time and he’s been helping others get into the business for a long time. He’s written at least four books – because that’s how many he sent me. He’s a master of creative deal structure. He knows how to live and invest in competitive areas with high prices. We all can learn from Chris – I know I already have and I’m excited to share this interview with you today.
The last time I had a real estate coach on the show, I was surprised at how many of you asked me something to this effect: Hey Roger, you’re a coach. Why are you helping promote your competitors on your show? I haven’t addressed this before and I’m not going to take a lot of time with it now. The answer is, I don’t have competitors in this business. I have potential partners and I have friends. There is plenty of room for us all. A good living, financial freedom, and time freedom can be enjoyed by everyone who does well in this business – there is no one single winner.
I believe in abundance, I believe in collaborative capitalism, and I believe in the law of sowing and reaping. As I sow a spirit of helpfulness and collaboration into the world, I find that help comes to me when I need it. It’s not always from the same people, but it comes all the same. If we all help each other we will all get what we need. That’s been my philosophy and my answer to that challenge for years. I don’t see it changing.
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Coming soon – all previous shows and show notes will be on the website.
News and Resources:
- 9 myths of buying new construction. https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/myths-about-buying-a-new-construction-home-debunked/?identityID=5d4d70f16c99b5008c243813&MID=2023_0106_Weekly_NL&RID=247340962&cid=eml_promo_Marketing_NonPRSL_WeeklyNL_cons.16053002_2023_0106_Weekly_NL-article5-blogs_buy
- The colors of 2023 – everything mixed with some gray. https://www.realtor.com/advice/home-improvement/2023-paint-color-trends/?identityID=5d4d70f16c99b5008c243813&MID=2023_0106_Weekly_NL&RID=247340962&cid=eml_promo_Marketing_NonPRSL_WeeklyNL_cons.16053002_2023_0106_Weekly_NL-article7-blogs_own
- Latest real estate market trends from HousingWire https://www.housingwire.com/housing-market/
- Logan Motashami weighs in on the real estate market projections for 2023. https://www.housingwire.com/articles/logan-mohtashamis-2023-housing-market-forecast
Quote of the Day
Never let success get to your head and never let failure get to your heart.
Expected Air Date: Wed 1/18/23
Guest: Chris Prefontaine
[0:01] You need a coach. How do I know? Because no one sees themselves truly objectively.
Tiger Woods was the best golfer in the world by a long shot and he never competed without a swing coach.
You wanna play a sport? Get a coach. You wanna run a business? Get a coach. You wanna invest in real estate?
Get a coach. And I’ve got a great one coming today.
[0:38] It’s time for Flipping America, the show that teaches you how to make money in real estate. Wherever you are, whatever your situation, there is an opportunity for you. And now, here’s that Flipping America guy, Roger Blankenship.
As you’re about to hear, Chris Prefontaine has been in the real estate business a long time and he’s been helping others get into the business for a long time. He’s famous, he hardly needs an introduction.
He’s written at least four books because that’s how many he sent me. He’s a master of creative deal structure.
He knows how to live and invest in competitive areas with high prices.
We can all learn something from Chris. I know I already have.
[1:15] And I’m excited to share this interview with you today. There’s a lot more I could say about Chris, but there’s something else that is troubling me a little bit I need to kind of just address.
Last time I had a real estate coach on the show, I was surprised at how many of you asked me something to this effect, hey Roger, you’re a coach, why are you helping promote your competitors on your show?
Those are people who obviously have never been to one of our local networking meetings. And I haven’t addressed this really before on the show and I’m not gonna take a lot of time with it now, but the answer is I don’t have competitors in this business. I have potential partners and I have friends.
And sometimes I have friends that I haven’t met yet, but yeah, that’s what’s out there. There’s plenty of room for us all.
A good living financial freedom and time freedom can be enjoyed by everyone who does well in this business.
There’s no single winner. I believe in abundance, I believe in collaborative capitalism, and I believe in the law of sowing and reaping.
And as I sow a spirit of helpfulness and collaboration into the world, I find that help comes to me when I need it.
It’s not always from the same people, but it comes all the same. If we all help each other, we will all get what we need.
That’s been my philosophy and my answer to that challenge for years. I don’t see it changing. So there you go.
I just spared you the time of writing the email asking me that question.
[2:43] Nah, you can ask me anything you want, I’ll answer it. I’m your friend, I’m here to help.
Okay, whatever platform you’re listening on, please subscribe to the show, like it, and do me this one little favor.
If you think it’s worthwhile, share it with a friend.
[2:59] That’s helping our audience grow. And I’m astounded how our audience is growing organically and so grateful and filled with joy to know that you guys think that what we’re doing is worth our time and worth your time to listen.
If you want to follow us on social media, you can do that. Flipping America Media, oh, let’s see, sorry.
[3:21] It’s Facebook.com slash Flipping America Media on Twitter and Instagram at Flipping America, YouTube.com slash Flipping America.
You can call us at any time. The website is SlippingAmerica.net. The telephone number is there.
I’ve been told that I’m giving too many numbers, so I’m just going to give you this one number. And the number is for you to type in, text the word WIT, W-I-T, to 205-858-6437.
205-858-6437. If you type the word wit, that will make you a subscriber to our weekly-ish newsletter, The Weekly Wit.
Wit stands for whatever it takes. And the wit is a five to seven minute read. It’s real quick, it’s got one investing tip, some real estate news, a joke, and a blessing from our database of Irish blessings.
I think you’ll enjoy it, and it is absolutely free. Today’s show is brought to you by BlackBeachGifts.com.
Find the perfect gift for that special someone at BlackBeachGifts.com. We’ll say more about them in a little bit, but first it’s time to do the news.
[4:38] I pulled down an article for Realtor.com and read the nine myths of buying new construction and honestly it’s a pretty good article. I didn’t know there were really that many myths about buying new construction, but I went through it and,
And yeah, I can see how some people would think,
some of the things that they said there,
and what you probably ought to be doing about it.
And that article, the full article is in the show notes, but you can go to realtor.com and it’s a recommended read for today.
The next thing I noticed while I was there is the colors of 2023. And we’ve had some fun with colors in the past. And I just wanna talk to you about the six paint color trends that will be everywhere in 2023.
And one of them is warm green tones. It looks like a dark olive green. Another is neutrals, just like always, you know, builders beige.
And in our business, we have a warm neutral and a cool neutral. The warm neutral is with the ivory and, you know, the that.
[5:44] That shade of white and the cool neutral is more of the grays. And then number three is inventive gray hues.
What the heck is an inventive gray hue?
[5:55] I mean, really, how many shades of gray can you have? Well, it turns out it’s more than 50. Okay, I’m shutting up about that.
Moving on, navy blues are next, that’s number four. At number five are understated reds.
At number six are mustard yellows. but the mustard yellow is also understated like the red and also like the green.
And so really what the whole thing looks like to me, it just looks like the primary colors mixed with some gray.
It’s sort of a grayish look. And so if you wanna be hip and happening with your color scheme and your properties, you could basically use whatever color you want as long as you mix it in with a little gray and just dial it back a little bit, mute it.
Okay, also in the notes today, I’ve got the latest real estate market trends from HousingWire. This is a, you ought to read it.
And Logan Motashami weighs in on his real estate projections for 2023. I’ve got a link to that also.
Now, long-time listeners to the show will know that I really like and respect Logan. I’ve had him on the show a few times, and we see eye to eye almost all the time.
And Logan always backs up his opinion with lots of charts and data and history and so forth and so on.
[7:16] Logan is projecting, and you heard it here on the Flipping America Show first, he is projecting that on the whole, across the country.
[7:25] In 2023, the market is going to lose value about 5% from its peak in 2022.
So, the market’s going to be down 5% across the country.
My projection has been it’s going to be flat this year. I didn’t have enough belief that it’s really going to go down, but Logan is saying it’s going to go down.
So, we’ll see how it goes. Logan and I have both been continuing to predict an upswing in the market, and we have both undershot it every year for the last four or five years.
[8:08] I’ve always been maybe a little bit more optimistic than him, but even then, the market grew, the prices grew at a higher rate than even I projected.
But both of us agree, along with Bill Gross, another market expert, that I’m talking about market experts that actually pay attention to the data, not people who just want clicks on YouTube.
There are some people that are doing some stories on YouTube about the coming real estate crash in 2023.
You don’t even know who they are. They don’t ever identify themselves by name. They just throw out a lot of charts and graph and use some poor logic and selective data and try to persuade you that the market is going to fold up and die. It’s not.
It’s going to correct. We’ve been saying it for a while. We’re due for a correction and we’re going to get to a balanced marketplace.
But where I differ with Logan is I think that some markets in growing population are going to make up for those markets, particularly in the northeast and the coastal regions of the west coast, where population is dipping and home values are going to drop.
I believe they are going to drop there.
But I believe that some of the growing areas like the Dallas-Fort Worth, Atlanta, Tampa, I believe that the prices are going to be up enough there that the net effect will be flat.
[9:36] I don’t think we’re going to see house price appreciation nationwide. Now keep in mind that there’s a couple of things that when we talk about these projections, there’s a couple of things that you need to know and keep in mind.
Number one, we can adapt to the circumstances as investors.
If we’re paying attention to the circumstances, it’s not hard to read the tea leaves and know what’s right in front of us.
And we can adapt to those circumstances.
And if you are paying attention, you as an investor can make money in any market and in any economy.
And like I’ve said many times on the show, we’re not sitting here rooting for a bad economy. But when the economy is bad is when we make most of our money because we’re buying distressed real estate.
Now, if we had a different model for the way we buy real estate, then it might rely on a different economy.
Okay? So, that’s the first thing I would like for you to keep in mind. Projections are just that. The second thing is, I mean, projections are what they are. We can live with whatever happens. The second thing is real estate is hyperlocal.
[10:43] When you try to stretch the statistics across the entire country, what you’re really going to do is you’re going to miss it in about every market that’s out there.
Some markets are going to lose a lot of value, some markets are going to continue to grow. I doubt that any market is going to remain absolutely flat. I’m just saying that the net effect is going to be flat across the country.
[11:07] It behooves each of you to pay attention, to use the kind of analysis that we use on a national level. Use it in your own local market.
Thanks for watching!
[11:16] Be aware of what’s going on with the trends.
Talk to realtors. Talk to other investors. Find out what their experience is.
Even though I do have this national show and it’s been my blessing to talk to many smart people, a lot smarter than me with a lot more impressive charts and graphs, I still get out and go talk to local investors and find out what their experience is on the ground.
And that helps to kind of keep my head out of the clouds and keep me balanced and grounded. And that’s what you should be doing as well.
Be talking to people and be aware of what’s happening. And as long as you’re aware, you’re going to be okay.
Let’s switch over now and let’s talk to Chris Prefontaine. You and I till the end don’t need to present again and again we’ll stick together.
[12:14] Chris Pryfontaine, welcome to the show. Thanks, Roger. Good to be here, my friend.
Yeah, you know, we’ve been working on getting this together, getting us together for almost a year off and on. I don’t know. We tried this about a year ago. Do you remember that?
[12:32] I was going to say I don’t, but I think I’m flattered. Well, yeah, I tried to get you on the show a while back and because, you know, I’ve heard of you and
I know of you and your reputation precedes you and it’s all good. I think we just ran into a problem with the technology or something. And then we just, we just, anyway, I’d forgotten to even
mentioned that to you before we started recording. But anyway, glad you’re here finally after all this time. All right. Yeah. You are a real estate coach and I’m going to go ahead and put your
website up on the screen right now. SmartRealEstateCoach.com. And now you’re, I gather you’re still doing some real estate deals, but you’re also teaching people. Do I have that part right?
[13:18] You do, you have both parts right. We being family company, we buy and sell in this area without using banks, without using our own money, and then we teach it all across North America.
[13:30] Okay, so let’s back up a little bit. How did you end up getting into this? Because I bet it wasn’t your career path when you were a kid. Well, I’m going to date myself here,
but I started in real estate in 1991. However, buying how we are now without banks and without taking out loans and without borrowing money from private, without using our cash, that all was
because of the crash of 08. So from 08 till now is kind of the re-engineering of everything we do,
sort of under the new protocol, if you will, the new box of rules.
[14:08] Okay. Yeah. 2008 changed the real estate world for a lot of us that were in business at the time. And it’s been kind of interesting over the past several years to watch this uprise or,
you know, up circle, up cycle, whatever you call it. The price is rising like, well, I remember back in the early aughts, the prices were rising. And then we got to the collapse. Okay. So just a
question. Do you see a collapse coming in 2023? I know this is the biggie that everybody wants to know. Right. But I will say, I will, I will preface this with the billionaires don’t know.
[14:46] So I certainly don’t know. And if someone tells you they know, run, they don’t know. But But, okay, two things.
One is I see it softening in different pockets already around the country.
I don’t think there’s ever one market. I get a kick out of it, Roger, when people say to me, well, what do you think of the market?
The market’s different in every pocket in the country. So because we have the benefit of our community’s pretty big now, the Wicked Smart community, I get to hear different markets. And yeah, it’s softening.
I’m seeing like a nothing to a 10%, 20 and high end areas correction. But the reason I guess I’m indifferent to it and I’m answering Nonchalant is after the crash when we built this terms niche, this creative real estate niche and trademarked how we do it, I literally don’t care.
In fact, when there’s chaos and confusion and people need guidance, this is when creative real estate flourishes. I think that next three to five years is pretty special for creative real estate.
[15:45] Yeah, I wasn’t really trying to set you up. If somebody asked me that question, my answer is no, I don’t think it’s going to crash in 2023, because our research team studies the market fundamentals all the time.
And we’re looking at broad national averages, and we see what you’re seeing and hearing from your group. But the thing that really drove the crash in 2008 was an abnormally high rate of foreclosure, and that’s not happening. And that’s not even in the cards.
So, yeah, and with you, I also will say to people, look, I’m not sitting around rooting for economic disaster, but economic disaster is when I made most of the money I’ve made in this business from 2008 to 2012.
I got wealthy.
[16:31] Yeah, and you know what? You were better off than me, Nate, but to your point, it’s well taken, because when you know how to structure deals, there’s one constant in real estate, right?
It’s changing. It’s not going to stop. So it’s not like you should wait for a market. You should understand how to pivot in all markets. That’s what we’re doing here. Up, down, sideways, doesn’t matter. Okay. So the last several years, we’ve been seeing an upcycle in prices. I mean, it’s,
just been going up and up and up and up. How does that affect your strategy?
[17:00] Okay, so right when COVID hit, when there was chaos, our properties going under agreement went through the roof positively.
And then of course the craziness hit and everybody that put a sign out could sell.
How did it affect us?
Two ways. One, we pointedly fish in different ponds, meaning we then said, let’s not talk about properties that are on market.
Let’s go talk to people that are on market. And we love talking to free and clear property owners. They don’t have a mortgage.
I bought a third of the properties in the United States. Great group to deal with. That’s how I bought my building that I own to this day with all the companies in it. Secondly, did it take us more sort of phone calls, let’s say, to get a deal metric-wise? Because we know our metrics.
Yeah, when the market was super red hot, it took us more calls if you want to keep it simple to get a deal. But that’s okay. If you know your metrics, it’s just numbers, just math.
[17:53] Okay. All right. So you mentioned a couple of times about creative deal structures and.
[18:00] Go ahead and tell us what you mean by that and how you might put a deal together creatively. Sure. So for us, that means one of three things, Roger. It’s owner financing, and I’ll define that better in a second, or it’s buying subject to existing financing,
or it is lease purchase. Now in this market, I’ll tell you that buying subject to existing financing, I love just as much as the free and clear owner financing because we’re buying homes
right now that have underlying interest rates of like 2.7 to 4.1% interest. Well, that’s pretty cool. When you know the interest rates are sky high comparatively, with loans coming on the market
right now, we’re buying properties with underlying rates that date back a year ago. That’s pretty neat. And you have, unbeknownst to most people, you have all kinds of sellers right now that are going, uh-oh, the press is screaming. That’s helping us. Press is screaming, you know.
[18:58] Recession, all this other crap. So that’s helping us because they’re panicking and they need to move on. And if they have second homes and they need relief, so there’s all that going on. I love,
love the subject two strategy right now during this market. And I said, I would define owner finance a little better. We want to find things broad, right? But we focus on those free and
and Claire owners because we’re able to structure like 99% of the time, we’re structuring monthly payments to the seller with owner financing that are principal only payments. That is a huge recession hedge I call it when you’re talking about structuring these deals five or 10 years out.
Yeah, principal only payments. That is actually the first time I’ve heard that. That’s kind of interesting. People go along with that. Love it. Because look, we bought it like a million
home was like $950 on the water towards Cape Cod. It’s like a resort area. And the woman that sold it to us was a broker. She was a realtor. She couldn’t sell it conventionally. And we structured $2,500 a month, principal only payments. That deal went for like four and a half years. All that.
[20:01] That principle pay down crude to us.
Yeah, I’ve just, I’m a little dumbstruck because I’ve never thought to even offer that to somebody, and I didn’t know that anybody would take that. A lot of people say, how do you convince them?
You don’t convince them. What you do is, I don’t even talk price at first when I get on a phone call. All I want to know is what is the seller trying to accomplish that the conventional market didn’t let them accomplish? In her case, there was some quirky things. She had a mother-in-law that that was ill and she wanted to stay in the house longer.
Like all these things that conventionally a buyer won’t want, right?
So as long as you can solve their problem, usually the payments become an on issue. And frankly, if I give them their price, I can get my principal pay down and I can get my term.
Most of them just want their price.
[20:54] Interesting. All right. So do you apply creative principles to your exit strategies as well? Yeah, good question. And so we, all of our deals that we sell, at least initially, and I’ll qualify that, start off as a rent to own.
And I want to put a big explanation point here because rent to own with a lot of educators out there and mentors is done incorrectly.
They cash out like five or 10% of them. We have a default rate of only two to 5%.
So when we set something up for a rent to own program, we’re setting them up to win. We’re getting them pre-qualified.
We’re getting a mortgage ready plan. We’re making sure they can get to the finish line.
And then if they’re really good and we have long terms on the house, we’ll want to finance them eventually. They don’t have to go to a bank.
So that’s like step two more advanced. Okay. Hey, Chris, the time is flying. We’ve got to take a quick break, but we’ll be right back and talk some more about this.
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I’m Roger, he’s Chris. We’re talking about creative real estate structures. And I’m going to put your website up there again on screen, smartrealestatecoach.com.
If somebody wants to get coached by Chris Prefontaine, you go to smartrealestatecoach.com and then what happens?
[22:45] Well, there’s a bunch of different ways. We’re big on free, Roger, because I know a lot of people get marketed to. We’re not great marketers. We’re not due deals.
So I want people to get in sort of the funnel for free.
They can get my free book. We’ll give them a link for York Tribe here in a minute.
But I mean physical book for free, no shipping, no nothing. is only after they do their free due diligence do I want them to then say, yeah, this niche is for me or no, it’s not. There’s a lot of cool niches in real estate.
Yeah, all right.
[23:15] And then, but you’re set up and you can help people anywhere in the country. Yeah, in the country. And we do have some people out of the country, Canada, England tends to operate like us as well as Australia, at least to my knowledge.
I don’t know about outside of those, but we’re 98% US right now. How do you help people that are remote, long distance away from you? Obviously you’re not gonna sit with them face to face and give them guidance. Do you do virtual Zoom meetings and that sort of thing?
Yeah, let’s talk post COVID because we’re finally back to doing events. So we do two live events a year. They can come in if they want.
But we also have, when you’re in the Wicked Smart community, every single Thursday we’re hanging out.
We’re hanging out and doing a mastermind call. Every single Thursday we have what’s called the Wicked Smart Sit Down, that’s for free.
We’re letting you plug in a lot to make sure that you know, you’re around the right people to get the deals done.
A lot of support. And so you can, if you take advantage of all of that, you’re well tuned in.
Yeah, yeah. You and I, we think a lot alike, especially about giving good value and a lot of free information.
[24:20] There’s a lot of free information out there already on YouTube and this sort of creates maybe some competition you and me, but also a little bit of confusion. How do you help people deal with that noise?
[24:34] Yeah, there’s a lot of noise because there’s some good marketers, right? They’re not a breakthrough and get to you before something like you or I can. You know what, Roger? I think a lot of this has to do with just the foundational value system. We’re a family company. People know it.
We’re from New England. We’re blunt and to the point, like there’s no gray area. And that doesn’t mean there’s no permission to be rude. That means we communicate very directly. You know what you’re getting when you come to us.
If you go on to YouTube and you see, I think we’re over 200, there’s like 200 deals we’ve posted. Like our live deals, we give you the good, the challenges, the bad.
And when you watch those, you don’t leave there going, oh, they don’t know what they’re doing. And you don’t leave there going, they don’t care. You understand what we’re all about.
So I lean on just the footprint we have out there now tells the story.
[25:20] What’s in the future? What you got going for this year? What are you looking to do? Well, we just set our new three year mission. We ended a five year and we set a new three
year mission. And this is about transforming people’s lives that are serious about getting into real estate. That’s our, I’m whittling it down obviously from a long offsite, but we are transforming people. We are helping people escape their W-2 and we’re doing that in mass numbers.
Okay, good. Let me ask you a couple of personal questions. When you were a little kid, What did you want to be when you grew up?
I know you’re gonna be surprised here, but I hung out, my father had a welding business, not real estate, but he built his own building.
So I hung out around real estate all the time. And so in high school years, I literally bought Trump’s first book and then started just hanging out and looking at articles online for real estate. It always intrigued me.
I just never did it until later in life. It’s interesting.
You’re one of the few, I’m thinking now, I’ve probably interviewed 450 people for this show over the years. I don’t know if maybe one or two, that’s all they ever wanted to do is real estate, but yeah, you’re definitely rare.
What predated that was, you remember the Brady Bunch, so I thought I wanted to be an architect, and then it went into general real estate. So either way, it was real estate.
Yeah, yeah. All right. What are the business trends when you’re looking at the news and so forth? What are the business trends that you pay most attention to?
[26:48] Anything related to the banking that affects creative real estate or the real estate market in general? But I got to tell you, I just don’t camp out on the news, Roger.
I just think there’s, to use your word, a lot of noise, a lot of crap. So I honestly don’t.
I talk with and have people on my podcast who are experts. I listen to that, but I don’t go listen to the general media. It’s a bunch of crap. Yeah.
And I think I know the answer to this question, how does the general economy affect your business?
[27:20] It affects it when this chaos, as I kind of alluded to earlier, so when the media is screaming like they are now, it affects us in a very positive way. Most of what the media does, as you know, is negative because that’s what they know will get the ratings.
And any of that actually feeds us because we become the guy, we become the fix, we become the solution.
If you were picking a business leader, alive or dead, at any time in history, that you wanted to model your business after, who would it be?
[27:50] Well because i live here in newport and across literally across the water here i can see the cliff walk where all the mansions were built the kind of the family. I’m the vanderbilt family there was a serious wealth and history and entrepreneurship built there like you look at these mansions they built these.
Today’s dollars unheard of and they built that before there was equipment machinery and they built that because they had huge businesses so anyone of those those families the county’s the brand of bills.
Okay in your opinion Chris what does it mean to be truly wealthy.
[28:25] Well this is an easy one I think we’re all time I think is being able to. Create enough income and wealth to do the things that income and wealth can’t buy.
And in my case, at my age, that’s creating experiences for the family that you just can’t put a price tag on it.
Very good, very good. All right, that’s some of the random round table of questions and man, the time has flown by in this conversation. I hope we can do it again.
And I hope you’ll come back. It won’t take a year this time.
And I won’t what? Oh, don’t take a year. No, no, I’ve got some definite ideas about when I want to get you back.
And we’ll talk about that a little bit offline.
But thank you, Chris, for joining us today. We appreciate it very much. Thank you, appreciate it, buddy.
Thank you so much for joining us today on the Flipping America show. I am Roger Blankenship reminding you, never let success get to your head and never let failure get to your heart.
[29:20] I love you, I appreciate you. Thanks for listening.