Who owns your local car wash? It might be a friend of mine and if you want, you can own a piece of it too. Coming up today on Flipping America
Although the show is called Flipping America we don’t encourage everyone to drop what they are doing and start flipping houses like you see on TV. We DO encourage everyone to consider real estate as a part of a balanced investment portfolio. To that end we bring you the best news, analysis, strategies and tactics, demographics, tools, and methods we can find mixed in with incredible people doing fantastic things in real estate. It’s all here for your inspiration, information, and edutainment.
We’ve got one of those incredible people joining us today. Chris Larsen is one of the smartest dudes I know. He’s the host of the Next Level Income Show and author of the book by the same name, Next Level Income. He’s been a multi-family buyer for years but he recently branched out into car washes. Coming in a few minutes, you’ll hear his vision for the business and how you could get involved.
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Topic: House Flipping Resources
- Alaina, Milwaukee “Is there ever an occasion when you go outside of your formulas?”
- Denisha, Pittsburgh, PA, “I know the MAO formula but I wonder if there is ever a time when you make an exception. I’m having a hard time making a deal fit.”
- Erica, Atlanta “When you’re new and starting out and you want to partner with someone who has money, how do you know this person is the right person?”
- Mark, Marietta, GA, “How do I get started in this business if I have no money and no knowledge of real estate?”
- Stanley, Hoover, AL, “I looked at your website one day and you had seven or eight houses for sale. The next day there was one. Did you sell all of them that fast? When will there be more?”
- Rollin, Milwaukee, WI, “I heard you say something about staying out of the city on a prior show. Why is that? Our city needs renewal in several areas.”
- Angela, Simpsonville, KY, “What are your thoughts on trailers? Both single and double-wides? Around here, there’s a lot of them and some can be bought pretty cheap.”
- Sammy, Augusta ME, “It’s tough to rehab houses here in the winter time. I know you don’t have the same issue in Georgia, but do you have any suggestions for me here?”
Quote of the Day
Today’s Michael Scott Quote:
“I would not miss it for the world. But if something else came up, I would definitely not go.”
Expected Air Date: Wed 12/21/22
Guest: Chris Larsen
[0:01] Who owns your local car wash? It might be a friend of mine. And if you want, you can own a piece of it too.
[0:08] Coming up today on Flipping America.
[0:27] It’s time for Flipping America, the show that teaches you how to make money in real estate. Wherever you are, whatever your situation, there is an opportunity for you. And now, here’s that Flipping America guy, Roger Blankenship.
Although the show is called Flipping America, we don’t encourage everyone to drop what they’re doing and start flipping houses like you see on TV.
We do encourage everyone to consider real estate as a part of a balanced investment.
[1:00] And methods we can find, mixed in with some incredible people doing fantastic things in real estate.
It’s all here for your inspiration, information, and edutainment. And we’ve got one of those incredible people joining us today in just a few minutes.
Chris Larson is one of the smartest dudes I know.
He’s the host of the Next Level Income Show and author of the book by the same name, Next Level Income.
[1:25] He’s been a multifamily buyer for years, but he recently branched out into car washes. Coming up in just a few minutes, you’re going to hear his vision for the business and how you can get involved.
First, a little housekeeping. Whatever platform you’re listening to us on, if it’s not over the air, there’s no way to subscribe to our radio show. I hope that you will make it a habit.
But if you’re listening on a podcast platform, please subscribe and hit a like button if there is one and do us a favor, tell a friend about it.
And then on Facebook, you can always find us at facebook.com slash Flipping America Media, Twitter and Instagram, follow us at Flipping America, YouTube.com forward slash Flipping America.
[2:09] And lastly, if you have questions about real estate or real estate investing, send your questions to questions at flippingamerica.net. Questions at flippingamerica.net.
And also just a reminder, you can go to flippingamerica.net and schedule a free strategy call.
I am willing to give you 30 minutes of my time, one of the people on the team will, but for all of December and all of January, I’m doing all of the 30 minute blocks.
So if you schedule a 30 minute conversation, you can have a conversation with me personally.
It’s not a sales call, I suck at sales. We’ll just talk about where you are, what you need, and how we can help you take the next steps or the first steps to get going in your real estate investing journey.
All right, now we’re gonna join my conversation with Chris Larson.
[3:02] Chris Larson, welcome back to the Flipping America show. How you doing, man?
Roger, I’m great. It’s always great to see you, my friend. All right. The the topic for today’s show is value added real estate.
And when I thought about the people I know that know something about value at a real estate, it’s got to be my man, Chris Larson, who is going to tell us about it. So first of all, help us set the stage a little bit.
Just give us your definition of a value add in real estate.
[3:28] Yeah, so it’s it’s really like the Warren Buffett strategy of investing.
So what you’re doing, Roger, the best thing to do is to think about real estate like a business. So you’re taking that business and you’re improving both the income as well as the operational efficiency, which means you’re increasing profitability.
So value add real estate is buying a piece of real estate that’s cashflow positive, that you can improve the income and the operations to improve profitability.
Okay. Well, yeah. And I had to do a little value added improvement to my telephone there.
Yeah, you disappeared there. We’re on Do Not Disturb now. All right. So yeah, I appreciate that.
Okay. Now you buy value add multifamily. And I know we’re going to talk about your launching out to other value add, but is there another way to buy multifamily besides value add?
[4:22] There is, there is. And by the way, like I wrote a whole book on this too. So somebody once told me, hey, there’s no good book on value add multifamily.
There we go. Oh yeah, and I read that book. Reading that book is a big reason why I keep having you back on the show because I loved it. I love your heart, I love your brain, and I’d like your brain to kind of leak over into mine and make mine grow a little bit, and it’s helping.
[4:46] Yeah, well let’s, yeah, so let’s do a little sharing of knowledge here.
So there are lots of different types. So it’s just like, if you’re familiar with residential, you can build a new house, you can buy a fixer upper, you can buy a tear down and you could tear it down.
You can also build from.
[5:05] The ground up or you can just do development. It’s all the same thing in commercial real estate as well. So really if you think about it, there’s development and multifamily, there’s new construction.
So basically like lease ups where you buy a new piece of real estate and you get it up to operational capacity.
What we do is we typically do now what I would call light value adds. So Roger, we’re buying properties typically built in the last decade that need a little bit of love and care.
So think about it if you’re buying a house that was built five years ago or 10 years ago and you come in and your wife says, you know what, or your partner says, I don’t like the kitchen or the flooring or the fixtures.
And you just replace kind of the surface items.
So you make it your own. So what we do is we come in, we make the property our own, we make it look and feel and fit to the highest level in the market.
And that means we can typically raise rents somewhere between a hundred to $200 a month, which we’re talking about $15, $2,000 a month properties.
And then you can sell those properties to operators that like to focus on more stabilized properties. And that would be kind of the last thing, like buying a fully stabilized kind of turnkey type property, which would be like a long-term rental and residential.
I was gonna ask you about that, because I know people that will go out on the MLS and buy houses that are fixed up and ready to roll. They don’t have to touch them or do anything to them. Just turn them into income producers.
And that’s certainly an option in the apartment world too, the multifamily, right?
[6:34] Yeah, and you have, so one of the other big things we focus on is life insurance and cash value life insurance. And people ask, well, how do life insurance companies make money?
They buy bonds and they buy bonds at good times, like now when yields are higher. They also buy really high quality real estate in core markets and insurance companies,
pensions, REITs, a lot of these companies, Roger, they like just getting a nice stable,
high single digit return.
So five to 9% is very reasonable for them. And that’s a very, it’s like clipping a coupon at that point. That allows them to guarantee 4%.
That’s right. There you go. There you go. They get a little bit of margin for error, which is exactly how a life insurance company operates. Yeah.
Yeah. Great business to get into if you can.
[7:24] Kind of like being a title company, but I digress. That’s a license to print money. All right.
What you’re saying is that if you understand value add, you can expand that to other asset classes. Now I’m not gonna steal your thunder. Tell us the new thing you’re on. No problem.
Yeah, so look, it’s like, is anybody a Ted Lasso fan that’s listening? Right, so people watch Ted Lasso. I imagine everyone is.
Yeah. There you go. And so my partner was like, oh, I loved, he wanted to be more like Ted Lasso. I’m like, I gotta watch this show because my partner’s a great guy.
And I said, okay, Ted Lasso was a football coach to coach soccer.
[8:04] Ted Lasso knows the fundamentals of coaching, and he can apply those fundamentals to different sports. Now there’s a learning curve, as if anybody’s a fan of the show saw, it was very entertaining.
And it’s the same thing. So once you learn the value-added strategy, once you understand how to identify good opportunities, good properties, once you understand how to build an operating team, and then once you understand how to increase the revenue in that business or that piece of real estate,
you can take that same approach, that same value-added approach and apply it to other pieces of property. That’s why I call it the Warren Buffett strategy because that’s what,
Warren Buffett does. He just goes and finds businesses. Now, people say stocks, but he’s really buying businesses and figuring out, hey, are these undervalued?
Right. Right. That’s secretly something I’ve been interested in for quite some time.
I’m at the moment just trying to stay in my lane, do my thing. And you know, but all right. So what do you got?
What do you got going? You didn’t tell us yet.
[9:07] Yeah. So, um, look, I’ve, I’ve been coaching people here for the past couple of years here, Roger. And actually I’ve been coaching people for a long time. I used to coach people, um, in cycling,
because I raced bicycles for, for more than 20 years. And the challenge with coaching is you can only coach so many people. You can only, you know, do that. So I actually work with my coach. I put together a framework. We did a course. I’ve been building a course here over the past year,
and it’s going to be launching shortly after this podcast airs. So you’re going to have a code here that Roger can share with you. The course is $1497. Your listeners are going to get $500 off of that course. And what you’re going to learn is what my coaching clients pay me $30,000 a year to learn.
How to make more money, how to keep more money through tax, insurance, legal strategies, and how to grow your money and try to figure out, is active or passive investing the best thing for you?
And then the best part is at the end of the course, you’re going to get a spreadsheet where it’s going to not only help you analyze deals, so determine, hey, does this deal make sense for me? Is this the right operator? It’s going to give you a score, but it also is going to have what’s called a financial independence path or a path to financial independence.
And you can literally program your numbers in there and it will spit out, Roger, you’re going to be financially independent in seven years if you follow this path.
[10:24] Cool. I like it. And I’m a big fan of spreadsheets. So yeah, I don’t think I’m putting you on the spot. I would never do that on purpose, but I want to offer this course in the Flipping America Academy store where we’re selling online courses from people that I know like the best.
I’d be honored.
All right. Yeah. I’d be honored and we’ll make sure that you and your audience get to fully vet that and make sure it’s a good fit.
Yeah. And when you’re watching this video, all of the, we’ve already put the link on screen, but all of the links are going to be in the comments down below too.
Now, where I was really going with that is I wanted you to tell me about, tell us all about the car wash.
Can you say anything about that? Oh, geez. I’m sorry. I know we talked about so much. So, yeah.
So, value add, right? The value add strategy. So…
[11:12] Multifamily, self-storage. The challenge in today’s market, Roger, is that your yields have come down. So it’s harder to find a good deal, especially in the real estate side, right?
As prices have come up, people are looking for good deals. Again, we’re talking about Warren Buffett buys businesses. Can you find good little cash flowing businesses that you can improve the
value of and you can achieve economies of scale, right? Which is what an apartment is. You’re achieving economies of scale by basically bundling units, units of housing, right? It’s like taking,
in 100 or two or 300 homes and bundling them into one apartment.
And you actually sell that for a higher value because you can scale the operations of that.
[11:52] Well, one area that has come on our radar here in the past several years, actually almost bought a car wash with my uncle several years ago, like seven years ago.
And so my coaching clients had car washes. So I started to learn about them and learn how high the profit margins are. So my partners and I, we started looking into this strategy a couple of years ago,
built out an operating team because it’s a lot harder to find an operating team for car washes than it is for apartments.
It’s just not, it’s a very kind of fractured industry. So just to put that into a figure, 85% of the multifamily market is institutionally owned.
So 85% are basically big groups that own the apartments.
85% of the car wash industry are owned by operators with four or less locations, what we would call mom and pops.
So this is, oh, my brother’s on the payroll, or oh, I dip in the company coffers to pay for my own personal expenses that are kind of business expenses, but maybe they’re not accounted for properly.
Yeah, we’re making a lot of money so we don’t have an app to go for all of our locations.
[12:58] There’s different efficiencies in different economies. So what we found is we can buy locations at about 8X of EBITDA, so 8X multiple of EBITDA.
We can take them, pull them into our national brand, which is Hurricane Express Wash, which you can find online at hurricanewash.com.
And private equity groups will pay 2X, even sometimes higher than that multiple of EBITDA, if you have them packaged together as a large properly run portfolio.
So we’re up to about two dozen locations right now. We are actively acquiring, we’re actively building and growing that portfolio.
And what our goal is is to be basically the chick-fil-a of the express car wash business.
So you come in, you have a great experience, you can come through with your family, you take care of your car, which, for listeners of this show, you guys are investors, you guys are actively growing your income producing assets.
For a lot of people, their car tends to be one, if not the most valuable possession they own. There’s a lot of pride, especially in America for that. So as people stop washing their own cars looking for a place to get a great car wash, we want to provide that for them.
[14:08] That’s so cool. A lot going on, man. You got a lot going on and a lot to offer. I think that people, if you’re just now getting to know Chris Larson, you probably need to start by getting his book. Next Level Income. Tell us how to get that.
Yeah. So look, if you’re listening, nextlevelincome.com, click on the book link. If you put your address in, I’ll send you a free copy. No need to buy anything today. We got our podcast. You can learn from, you know, people that are making money, teaching you how to keep more money and ultimately how to grow your money just
like yourself and you’re doing Roger. All right really I like to sometimes ask people where should they start but I think where people should start is get your book and listen to it and read it right? Absolutely and that’s a great high-level overview of everything we talked about today. Okay he’s Chris Larsen and I’m Roger and we’ll be right back.
[15:05] Hey are you ready to learn this business for real? You want to check out the Flipping America Mastermind.
It includes twenty five home study courses, inclusion at all weekend training events for life, group coaching calls for life, and monthly one-on-one calls for a a full year, invest in yourself,
and be a part of my Flipping America family for life.
FlippingAmerica.net forward slash mastermind. And we are back.
I’ve got some questions from listeners. If you have a question about real estate or real estate investing, you can get an answer by sending it to questions at FlippingAmerica.net.
Alaina from Milwaukee says, is there ever an occasion when you go outside of your formulas?
[15:52] That’s a very good question. And the answer is, of course, yes, there is an occasion when we go outside of our formulas.
And by formulas, I’m assuming that you’re thinking about the maximum allowable offer formula, which we teach, and a lot of people teach the same formula.
You want to be all in a property, a flip for no more than 70% of value, because that leaves room for you to pay commission and pay for your cost of capital and still make some money.
And that’s generally a very good rule to follow. And when it comes to rental properties, you want to buy them at 1%.
You want your rent to be 1% of your total acquisition each month. So for example, if you’re in it for $100,000, you want the rent to be $1,000.
And those are good rules of thumb.
There is a time when you can break those rules if you know what you’re doing.
But you shouldn’t do it simply because you can’t find enough deals.
Now, I’m going to come back to your question, Elena, and explain further. But I’ve also got a similar question from Dinesha in Pittsburgh.
I know the MAO formula, but I wonder if there’s ever a time when you make an exception. I’m having a hard time making a deal fit.
[17:06] All right, well, first thing I would say to this, Danesha, is please don’t try to make a deal fit.
When you start trying to make deals fit is when you open yourself up to getting into deals that you’re eventually going to wish that you weren’t a part of. Don’t make them fit. If they fit, they fit. If they don’t fit, they don’t fit.
[17:28] Now, when can you make an exception? I think that exceptions can be made first and foremost when you’re dealing with a creative deal structure.
A creative deal structure that has you moving a little bit of money on the front end and turning it around and making some money on the back end.
If that back end is coming in 60 days or even in five years, if you know, if you understand the basic principles of calculating your returns, you can look at your actual real return on
the amount of cash that you put in, and you’ll see that in a creative deal structure, you can violate these rules because you’re actually putting in a lot less cash or no cash.
There are a number of ways you can structure a deal with no cash of your own, and then And almost any return is fine as long as there is a return, as long as there is some profit in there.
It’s fine if you have no cash in it.
Now, I say that, but I also want to say if you’re using someone else’s cash 100%, you still must be concerned about the return because you want to make a return for them. want your partners to be happy.
[18:43] All right. Erica from Atlanta. Oh, I’m sorry. Before I get to your question, Erica, I’m sorry. I wanted to give you another time when I might go outside of the formulas.
When we’re dealing with high-end houses, luxury houses, basically, we’re talking resale prices over a million dollars, then we will make an exception. We would not necessarily expect to,
to be all in a $2 million house for $1.4 million.
We still have to consider the cost of capital and we still have to consider commission, but there are a lot more zeros at the end of that number on that check.
And so it is possible that you can be okay with making a lower percentage when the dollar amounts are still pretty high.
[19:34] Okay. There’s your other exception. Now to you Erica, from Atlanta, when you’re new and starting out and you wanna partner with someone who has money, how do you know this person is the right person?
Well, that’s a very good question.
[19:49] First of all, the person is the right person if they have the money. You need to know that they have the money.
I think though that really more of the concern is going to come from the other side.
I think the person with the money is gonna wanna know if you’re the right person for them.
And because, you know, it’s their money that’s at risk here. And somebody told me one time that…
[20:15] The person who has no skin in the game puts his pants on different every morning. That was a funny way of saying that. But that’s true. If you have somebody that’s going to put up all of the money, they’re going to want to know what kind of person you are. And so I really think that you need to take the time to get to know the person to see what kind of person they are.
[20:35] And yeah, I’ve got some guidance for this in various lessons and courses that we teach, but But really, my opinion, the way that you can see what kind of a person a person really is is to see them in distress, to see them in a place of embarrassment or in a place of difficulty.
And how do they respond?
[20:56] That’s why whenever I’m getting ready to hire someone, if they play golf, I take them golfing because golf gives every single amateur player in the world an opportunity to demonstrate
how well they deal with disappointment, heartache, mistreatment, because the golf course is just unfair and bad luck, and trying circumstances, and embarrassment, too.
When you see how a person deals with all of this stuff out on the golf course, you get an idea of what kind of person it is. Now, I’m saying this with a smile on my face, because I really actually do this. But not everyone plays golf.
You need to take some time to get to know the person, and you want to see how well that person responds to bad news, disappointment, and adversity.
That’s going to be a part of it if they’re going to be in this game. I know, Erica, I know that you’re going to do your best so that your investor does not face bad news, adversity, and disappointment.
However, that is a frequent occurrence in rehabbing houses. There’s something a little bit disappointing, there’s a little bit of bad news in just about every project we take on.
[22:10] You just have to accept that and probably it would do you well to advise your investor partner that that’s going to happen.
They probably already know it.
[22:23] It’s good to go over all of this. Mark from Marietta, Georgia, how do I get started in this business if I have no money and no knowledge of real estate?
Okay, we get this question a lot, and I put it on here today because I want all of you that are listening to hear this. It is possible to get started in this business if you have no money and no knowledge of real estate, but the way to get started is to find someone who’s doing it,
and ask them how you can help them grow their business.
What can you do to just be around them?
If they’re building new construction, ask them if you can go sweep the floors and clean up the job site in the evenings in exchange for some knowledge about the business.
You have to bring some value. You can’t just simply waste their time.
A lot of people that are in this business have the belief that if they show you how to do it, then they’re just creating their own competition down the road.
So keep that in mind too. A lot of people aren’t gonna wanna help you because they don’t wanna compete with you later on.
[23:28] But I have found that there are a lot of people who like me believe in an abundance mentality. There’s plenty of opportunity. There are plenty of deals.
And if I help you do well, it will come back to me somehow or another.
Don’t really know how. But you’ve got to find somebody.
Look to your local RIA. You’re in Marietta, Georgia.
So we actually have a chapter of the Flipping America RIA there, Flipping Cobb.
Join Flipping Cobb and reach out to people in that group and get to know them. I don’t think Flipping Cobb is actually meeting in person.
Right now, our leader for that had to step aside to take care of some other things in his life.
And so we’re looking for someone to step up and lead that group start organizing the local in-person meetings.
[24:18] Get involved with a group like that. I also know that, let’s see, the Atlanta Rhea has a West group that meets in Kennesaw. That’s just right up the road from you.
And it’s being led by my good friend and mentor, Gordon Katz.
And I think it’s the fourth Monday of every month.
So go there and meet, just start meeting people. And as you meet people sooner or later, you’ll meet someone who’s willing to invest in you and help you get started.
Maybe you can earn some money, but definitely you can provide value to them and get some knowledge of real estate.
Once you have a little bit of money, Mark, the next thing to do is to invest it in yourself.
You’ve got to get some knowledge. This is a knowledge game. You’ve got to have some knowledge to do well with it.
We have a lot of resources for you that are very low cost at FlippingAmerica.net that can help you get started with the knowledge aspect of it.
[25:14] Stanley, Hoover, Alabama. I looked at your website one day and you had seven or eight houses for sale. The next day there was one. Did you sell them all that fast?
When will there be more? The answer is, Stanley, yes. Thanks for looking at the website. And for those of you that are wondering, if you go to flippingamerica.net, you won’t see any properties for sale there on the main page.
You have to go to the Buyers Club menu that’s at the top.
Just click on Buyers Club or just roll over Buyers Club with your mouse. And then one of the submenus is properties for sale.
[25:47] Now there is a price on these properties. I looked at it just a minute ago prepping for the show, and we’ve got one property that is for sale.
Everything else is sold. And that one is a property that really is a candidate for a fix and flip investor in Moultrie, Georgia. And there’s some good money to be made there.
But here’s the thing. When you see that price, just know this. Club members get a discount off that price and it’s at least $3,000 less. Sometimes it’s a lot more than $3,000 less than that price.
This is really a page designed for the Buyers Club members to go and look at their properties, but they have to log in to see what their price is. And there’s information about the Buyers Club on the Buyers Club page.
Anyway, the point is, yeah, we’re selling these houses and we sell them fast because we put them out there for good prices. We don’t.
Try to get rich and retire off of any one house. We make a reasonable amount of money, knowing that there’s going to be another one. And that gets to your next question, when will there be more? It’s been a little thin the last year and a half, just being honest.
We were doing five or eight every week in 2019 and on into 2020, but then we sort of ran out of inventory starting in 2021, it started slowing down. 2022, we haven’t had that many, but.
[27:11] But it’s starting to pick up, and it’s looking very promising for 2023.
So this is a good time for any of you to think about coming and joining the Buyers Club.
[27:24] Rollin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I heard you say something about staying out of the city on a prior show. Why is that?
Our city needs renewal in several areas. Every city in America, Rollin, needs renewal in several areas.
You have to ask yourself, Do you want to be an investor making money for yourself and your investors, or do you want to be a philanthropist?
Because I have tried, I’ve done my best to bring renewal into some of the more troubled areas.
What I got in return was materials stolen from the job site, the house vandalized. I had one house that was broken into 24 times before I finally just dumped it.
So yeah, I’m a little frosty about that, I will admit. But I had to go back and think about what is my purpose here? My purpose is not necessarily to be the agent for urban renewal. I don’t have enough money to do that.
I didn’t create those problems and I apparently can’t solve them.
So my responsibility is to my family, first of all, and then to my investors that believe in me to invest in profitable projects.
[28:38] When you get tied up in a city, you’re going to get tied up with city politics, code enforcement, permitting, all of it gets to be, in my opinion, more trouble than it’s worth.
See if I can squeeze in one more here.
Angela Simpsonville, Kentucky. What are your thoughts on trailers, both single and double wides around here?
There’s a lot of them and some can be bought pretty cheap. I happen to know where Simpsonville, Kentucky is.
Grown up in Louisville just right down the road from you Angela so thank you for listening to the show. Yes I am all in on trailers. I’ve flipped several
trailers over the past couple years and don’t mind doing it if the money is there and sometimes it is. Today’s quote from Michael Scott is I would not miss it for the world but if something came else that something else came up I,
definitely would not go. That’s it for today everybody keep your eyes open.
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